Michael Jackson's trial

[Roberto]

http://www.foxnews.com/images/163203/10_23_culkin_mccauley4.jpg
Culkin Calls Jacko Allegations 'Ridiculous'

SANTA MARIA, Calif. — Former child star Macaulay Culkin (search) took the witness stand Wednesday to testify for the defense in Michael Jackson's (search) child molestation trial, blasting allegations that he was once molested by the pop star as "ridiculous."

Jackson attorney Thomas Mesereau Jr. asked Culkin, now 24, what he thought of the charges against Jackson.

"I think they're absolutely ridiculous," Culkin said.

He said prosecutors never approached him about whether Jackson had ever molested him, and that he only learned of the allegations that he had been molested by watching news coverage of the trial.

"Somebody told me you should probably check out CNN because they're saying something about you," Culkin said. "I just couldn't believe it. ... It was amazing to me that nobody even approached me and asked if these allegations were true."

Prosecution witnesses testified earlier that Jackson inappropriatetly touched Culkin, who was a frequent childhood guest of Jackson's. That testimony was used to allege that Jackson has a pattern of inappropriate behavior with boys.

Those witnesses included a chef who testified he saw Jackson with his hand up Culkin's shorts as the singer held the boy up to a video game at Jackson's Neverland ranch.

A former maid also testified previously that Culkin stayed in Jackson's bedroom during visits to Neverland. That woman, whose son received a $2.4 million settlement from Jackson in 1994, was attacked by the defense because she was paid $20,000 to appear on a TV show.

Tuesday, the manager of Jackson's Neverland ranch acknowledged he lied to law enforcement officials in 2003 when he said he had no knowledge of Jackson sharing his bed with children.

The testimony by Joe Marcus (search) came during cross-examination by prosecutors, who sought to show he had lied to protect Jackson. At one point, prosecutor Gordon Auchincloss (search) said, "You keep looking at Mr. Jackson. Why is that?"

Marcus appeared startled and didn't answer, and a defense objection was sustained.

Auchincloss then asked Marcus if he was loyal to Jackson. He answered "Yes."

Marcus, who was expected to return to the stand Wednesday, acknowledged he lied when he told authorities during a November 2003 search of Neverland that he did not know about children sleeping in the singer's bedroom.

He later added the events of that day were chaotic and "I was overwhelmed."

The defense called Marcus to the stand Monday to testify that he never instructed anyone to hold Jackson's accuser and the boy's family against their will. He suggested Tuesday no such captivity happened.

The captivity claim is part of the conspiracy portion of the case against the pop star, who is alleged to have molested a 13-year-old boy in 2003.

Prosecutors claim the singer conspired to hold the family to get them to rebut a damaging TV documentary in which the boy appeared with Jackson. They also claim Jackson associates planned to send the family on a one-way trip to Brazil.

Marcus, an 18-year employee, testified Tuesday that the family of Jackson's accuser never objected when there were discussions about them going to Brazil. He said the only thing the boy's family wanted to know was where to go to have passport pictures taken.

"Did you ever receive any instructions from anyone to hold the (family) against their will?" Jackson attorney Robert Sanger asked.

"No," Marcus said.

Also Tuesday, the prosecution tried to show Jackson has more "special friends" who are boys than girls or women.

Marcus said there were also females who were close to the star, but when asked to name them off the top of his head he could only come up with Elizabeth Taylor, Liza Minnelli, a granddaughter of Marlon Brando and Karlee Barnes, the sister of a boy who spent time at Neverland.

Auchincloss also asked whether Marcus knew Jackson had adult materials at the ranch. Marcus said no, but acknowledged that dolls in bondage attire were kept on Jackson's desk. He called them "artwork."

"Do you think it's appropriate for children to be exposed to these?" Auchincloss asked.

Marcus paused and quietly said no.

At the outset of his cross-examination of Culkin, prosecutor Ronald Zonen asked the actor about a trip he once took to Bermuda with Jackson and other friends. During that vacation, Culkin confirmed that the singer gave him an expensive Rolex watch, but discounted the gift's significance. "I didn't see it as crazy. I was not a person without means, said Culkin. "It was not that awe inspiring."

n a bid to counter Culkin's testimony that he has never been approached by law enforcement officials about the abuse claims, Zonen asked the actor whether he (or his representatives) had, over the years, rebuffed interview requests from investigators. Culkin said he was unaware of those requests.

When Zonen asked Culkin about the frequency with which he shared Jackson's bed, the actor did not specify a number of times he bunked with the King of Pop. In a follow-up, Zonen asked if Culkin had ever slept with any other 35-year-old men. "Not that I remember," the actor testified. "But I wasn't friends with any other 35-year-old men who understood me."

During Mesereau's redirect examination, Culkin was asked about his comment that Jackson "understood" him. The "Home Alone" star testified that the singer could relate with the actor's worldwide fame and the fact that some people sought to personally profit from their association with him. "He gets it," Culkin said of Jackson, whom the actor described as "childlike".

[source: The smoking Gun and Foxnews]

[Maiii]

too long to read :P But I'm not specially interested in this anyway.

[Roberto]

too long to read :P But I'm not specially interested in this anyway.
In few words: MICHAEL JACKSON IS INNOCENT 100%, ok?

[artsaves1228]

too long to read :P But I'm not specially interested in this anyway.
yeah me too...im getting tired of seeing this all over tv, i dont care if he's innocent or guilty anymore... :roll:

[van helsing]

too long to read :P But I'm not specially interested in this anyway.
yeah me too...im getting tired of seeing this all over tv, i dont care if he's innocent or guilty anymore... :roll:
me too :wink:

[Maiii]

innocent or not, he's still scary

[Roberto]

innocent or not, he's still scary
scary or not, he's innocent :)
I favourite the heart of a person and not his aspect.

[Ardnoosh]

innocent or not, he's still scary
scary or not, he's innocent :)
I favourite the heart of a person and not his aspect.

looks like you like him very much Roberto :wink:

[Roberto]

innocent or not, he's still scary
scary or not, he's innocent :)
I favourite the heart of a person and not his aspect.

looks like you like him very much Roberto :wink:
I don't understand.....your sentence is strange :oops:

[drawingyourattention]

Yeah Roberto.. youre just trying to say that we should like a little less shortsighted at people who may seem 'weird' at the outside.

Like this quote:
innocent or not, he's still scary
this is based on stupidity, ignorance, looking at his outside. scary? because of his plastic surgery...?! :shock:

anyway, about the case. It getting clearer and clearer since the defense has started this week. Macauley Culkin was a great witness, but Mark Geragos (his former lawyer who was supposed to defend MJ in this case) had even more intresting information.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/05/13/jackson.trial/index.html

Geragos: Surveillance ordered on accuser's family
Attorney says he was concerned pop star might be victimized
Friday, May 13, 2005 Posted: 5:36 PM EDT (2136 GMT)

Mark Geragos, left, arrives Friday with defense team investigator Scott Ross at the Jackson trial.

SANTA MARIA, California (CNN) -- Celebrity criminal attorney Mark Geragos said Friday that he ordered surveillance on the family of Michael Jackson's teenage accuser because he was "gravely concerned" that they might be scheming to extract money from the pop star.

"I was trying to prevent a crime against my client," Geragos told jurors in Jackson's child molestation trial. "I thought they were going to shake him down."

Geragos said he asked private investigator Brad Miller to keep tabs on the family to find out "where they were, what they were doing and who they were meeting with." He also asked Miller to record a statement with the family so that they would be "locked into" their version of events and could not later change their story.

He described the results of Miller's investigation of the family as "negative," and he said he concluded, "Michael should have nothing to do with them."

"It was a pending train wreck," he said.

However, Geragos denied involvement in any conspiracy to hold the family against their will, as the prosecution alleges.

Testifying for the defense, Geragos said he was hired to represent Jackson in February 2003, during what he described as a "whirlwind" after the entertainer appeared in "Living With Michael Jackson," an unflattering television documentary by British journalist Martin Bashir.

Jackson replaced Geragos in April 2004 with his current attorney, Thomas Mesereau Jr.

At the time, Geragos was in the middle of representing Scott Peterson -- later sentenced to death for the murder of his pregnant wife, Laci -- and Jackson said he made the decision because "it is imperative that I have the full attention of those who are representing me."

Geragos 'pulled the plug' on TV interview
In Bashir's documentary, Jackson was shown holding hands with a then-13-year-old boy now accusing him of molestation. The singer defended his practice of letting children sleep with him in his bed. The program set off an international media firestorm.

"People were making all kinds of allegations ... specifically about one young man, and I was to look into that," Geragos said. His "first concern" was whether the state Division of Children and Family Services might try to take away Jackson's three children.

Shortly after being hired, Geragos went to Jackson's Neverland Ranch for his planned interview with "60 Minutes" journalist Ed Bradley. While there, he said, a Jackson associate told him things about the boy and his family "that were giving me great pause" -- particularly the fact that the boy was calling Jackson "daddy."

Geragos said he had a conversation with Jackson objecting to how the boy was referring to him. He said he eventually "pulled the plug" on the interview.

"It was not going to happen," he said.

Geragos also testified that he had associates in his office perform a database search, which turned up a lawsuit the boy's family filed against J.C. Penney, alleging that they had been mistreated in an altercation with the retailer's security guards. The family received a $155,000 settlement in that case in 2000, according to earlier trial testimony.

Geragos said the J.C. Penney case raised alarm bells because "my client is frequently the target of litigation."

However, under prosecution questioning, Geragos said he never advised Jackson that he should stop sleeping with children.

"I wasn't there to give him advice about that," he said.

------------
so, Mark Geragos was hired just after the Bashir documentary, cause there was a lot damage done. Geragos thought there was something about this family and was checking things. He became very suspicious.

[Ardnoosh]

innocent or not, he's still scary
scary or not, he's innocent :)
I favourite the heart of a person and not his aspect.

looks like you like him very much Roberto :wink:
I don't understand.....your sentence is strange :oops:
hey! not that way! I meant you like his songs!

[Ardnoosh]

Yeah Roberto.. youre just trying to say that we should like a little less shortsighted at people who may seem 'weird' at the outside.

Like this quote:
innocent or not, he's still scary
this is based on stupidity, ignorance, looking at his outside. scary? because of his plastic surgery...?! :shock:

anyway, about the case. It getting clearer and clearer since the defense has started this week. Macauley Culkin was a great witness, but Mark Geragos (his former lawyer who was supposed to defend MJ in this case) had even more intresting information.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/05/13/jackson.trial/index.html

Geragos: Surveillance ordered on accuser's family
Attorney says he was concerned pop star might be victimized
Friday, May 13, 2005 Posted: 5:36 PM EDT (2136 GMT)

Mark Geragos, left, arrives Friday with defense team investigator Scott Ross at the Jackson trial.

SANTA MARIA, California (CNN) -- Celebrity criminal attorney Mark Geragos said Friday that he ordered surveillance on the family of Michael Jackson's teenage accuser because he was "gravely concerned" that they might be scheming to extract money from the pop star.

"I was trying to prevent a crime against my client," Geragos told jurors in Jackson's child molestation trial. "I thought they were going to shake him down."

Geragos said he asked private investigator Brad Miller to keep tabs on the family to find out "where they were, what they were doing and who they were meeting with." He also asked Miller to record a statement with the family so that they would be "locked into" their version of events and could not later change their story.

He described the results of Miller's investigation of the family as "negative," and he said he concluded, "Michael should have nothing to do with them."

"It was a pending train wreck," he said.

However, Geragos denied involvement in any conspiracy to hold the family against their will, as the prosecution alleges.

Testifying for the defense, Geragos said he was hired to represent Jackson in February 2003, during what he described as a "whirlwind" after the entertainer appeared in "Living With Michael Jackson," an unflattering television documentary by British journalist Martin Bashir.

Jackson replaced Geragos in April 2004 with his current attorney, Thomas Mesereau Jr.

At the time, Geragos was in the middle of representing Scott Peterson -- later sentenced to death for the murder of his pregnant wife, Laci -- and Jackson said he made the decision because "it is imperative that I have the full attention of those who are representing me."

Geragos 'pulled the plug' on TV interview
In Bashir's documentary, Jackson was shown holding hands with a then-13-year-old boy now accusing him of molestation. The singer defended his practice of letting children sleep with him in his bed. The program set off an international media firestorm.

"People were making all kinds of allegations ... specifically about one young man, and I was to look into that," Geragos said. His "first concern" was whether the state Division of Children and Family Services might try to take away Jackson's three children.

Shortly after being hired, Geragos went to Jackson's Neverland Ranch for his planned interview with "60 Minutes" journalist Ed Bradley. While there, he said, a Jackson associate told him things about the boy and his family "that were giving me great pause" -- particularly the fact that the boy was calling Jackson "daddy."

Geragos said he had a conversation with Jackson objecting to how the boy was referring to him. He said he eventually "pulled the plug" on the interview.

"It was not going to happen," he said.

Geragos also testified that he had associates in his office perform a database search, which turned up a lawsuit the boy's family filed against J.C. Penney, alleging that they had been mistreated in an altercation with the retailer's security guards. The family received a $155,000 settlement in that case in 2000, according to earlier trial testimony.

Geragos said the J.C. Penney case raised alarm bells because "my client is frequently the target of litigation."

However, under prosecution questioning, Geragos said he never advised Jackson that he should stop sleeping with children.

"I wasn't there to give him advice about that," he said.

------------
so, Mark Geragos was hired just after the Bashir documentary, cause there was a lot damage done. Geragos thought there was something about this family and was checking things. He became very suspicious.

ladies and gentleman please welcome Draconian #2 :roll:

[Roberto]

Yeah Roberto.. youre just trying to say that we should like a little less shortsighted at people who may seem 'weird' at the outside.

Like this quote:
innocent or not, he's still scary
this is based on stupidity, ignorance, looking at his outside. scary? because of his plastic surgery...?! :shock:

anyway, about the case. It getting clearer and clearer since the defense has started this week. Macauley Culkin was a great witness, but Mark Geragos (his former lawyer who was supposed to defend MJ in this case) had even more intresting information.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/05/13/jackson.trial/index.html

Geragos: Surveillance ordered on accuser's family
Attorney says he was concerned pop star might be victimized
Friday, May 13, 2005 Posted: 5:36 PM EDT (2136 GMT)

Mark Geragos, left, arrives Friday with defense team investigator Scott Ross at the Jackson trial.

SANTA MARIA, California (CNN) -- Celebrity criminal attorney Mark Geragos said Friday that he ordered surveillance on the family of Michael Jackson's teenage accuser because he was "gravely concerned" that they might be scheming to extract money from the pop star.

"I was trying to prevent a crime against my client," Geragos told jurors in Jackson's child molestation trial. "I thought they were going to shake him down."

Geragos said he asked private investigator Brad Miller to keep tabs on the family to find out "where they were, what they were doing and who they were meeting with." He also asked Miller to record a statement with the family so that they would be "locked into" their version of events and could not later change their story.

He described the results of Miller's investigation of the family as "negative," and he said he concluded, "Michael should have nothing to do with them."

"It was a pending train wreck," he said.

However, Geragos denied involvement in any conspiracy to hold the family against their will, as the prosecution alleges.

Testifying for the defense, Geragos said he was hired to represent Jackson in February 2003, during what he described as a "whirlwind" after the entertainer appeared in "Living With Michael Jackson," an unflattering television documentary by British journalist Martin Bashir.

Jackson replaced Geragos in April 2004 with his current attorney, Thomas Mesereau Jr.

At the time, Geragos was in the middle of representing Scott Peterson -- later sentenced to death for the murder of his pregnant wife, Laci -- and Jackson said he made the decision because "it is imperative that I have the full attention of those who are representing me."

Geragos 'pulled the plug' on TV interview
In Bashir's documentary, Jackson was shown holding hands with a then-13-year-old boy now accusing him of molestation. The singer defended his practice of letting children sleep with him in his bed. The program set off an international media firestorm.

"People were making all kinds of allegations ... specifically about one young man, and I was to look into that," Geragos said. His "first concern" was whether the state Division of Children and Family Services might try to take away Jackson's three children.

Shortly after being hired, Geragos went to Jackson's Neverland Ranch for his planned interview with "60 Minutes" journalist Ed Bradley. While there, he said, a Jackson associate told him things about the boy and his family "that were giving me great pause" -- particularly the fact that the boy was calling Jackson "daddy."

Geragos said he had a conversation with Jackson objecting to how the boy was referring to him. He said he eventually "pulled the plug" on the interview.

"It was not going to happen," he said.

Geragos also testified that he had associates in his office perform a database search, which turned up a lawsuit the boy's family filed against J.C. Penney, alleging that they had been mistreated in an altercation with the retailer's security guards. The family received a $155,000 settlement in that case in 2000, according to earlier trial testimony.

Geragos said the J.C. Penney case raised alarm bells because "my client is frequently the target of litigation."

However, under prosecution questioning, Geragos said he never advised Jackson that he should stop sleeping with children.

"I wasn't there to give him advice about that," he said.

------------
so, Mark Geragos was hired just after the Bashir documentary, cause there was a lot damage done. Geragos thought there was something about this family and was checking things. He became very suspicious.

I love people as you :wink:

[artsaves1228]

mkay

[Ines]

Sorry, but that thread nerves... :roll:

[Luna]

I agree, Ines

[Maiii]

Yeah Roberto.. youre just trying to say that we should like a little less shortsighted at people who may seem 'weird' at the outside.

Like this quote:
innocent or not, he's still scary
this is based on stupidity, ignorance, looking at his outside. scary? because of his plastic surgery...?! :shock:
suspicious.

Ok, maybe it's stupid and shallow. Yes, I don't know him, what I know is just based on the media. And media is not always right, I know. But I still think he's weird, but he's just human...

[drawingyourattention]

Ok, maybe it's stupid and shallow. Yes, I don't know him, what I know is just based on the media. And media is not always right, I know. But I still think he's weird, but he's just human...

thats a fair opinion :D :D

thank you Roberto, love you to LOL :P

anyway, yeah he may come across as weird but remember, he hasnt really lived, hes been lived (if that right English, lol) so just think like: if hes innocent he sure deserves some understanding and sympathy, cause .... just think of what hes been through.

[Golfiscool]

As far as the maukuly culkin testimony goes, do you really think he'd admitt to being molested by Michael Jackson?? I don't. He's not a credible witness in my opinion. He's got his own substance abuse problems.

[drawingyourattention]

and the other 2, Brett Barnes and Wade Robson are lying too ah??

btw. did you know Macauley is still friends with Michael? That he is godfather from MJ's first 2 children?

[Roberto]

As far as the maukuly culkin testimony goes, do you really think he'd admitt to being molested by Michael Jackson?? I don't. He's not a credible witness in my opinion. He's got his own substance abuse problems.
You are influence by tabloids. They says a lot of liars. Culkin have said that this charges are ridiculous and absurd.
open your eyes

[Roberto]

Yeah Roberto.. youre just trying to say that we should like a little less shortsighted at people who may seem 'weird' at the outside.

Like this quote:
innocent or not, he's still scary
this is based on stupidity, ignorance, looking at his outside. scary? because of his plastic surgery...?! :shock:
suspicious.

Ok, maybe it's stupid and shallow. Yes, I don't know him, what I know is just based on the media. And media is not always right, I know. But I still think he's weird, but he's just human...
Hello Mai. Do you want save your face for that you have said before?

[Joane]

I just cannot stand this idiot Michael jackson- and you can all know it :)
They can put him into prison or not- who cares??? I don't !

[Maiii]

Yeah Roberto.. youre just trying to say that we should like a little less shortsighted at people who may seem 'weird' at the outside.

Like this quote:
innocent or not, he's still scary
this is based on stupidity, ignorance, looking at his outside. scary? because of his plastic surgery...?! :shock:
suspicious.

Ok, maybe it's stupid and shallow. Yes, I don't know him, what I know is just based on the media. And media is not always right, I know. But I still think he's weird, but he's just human...
Hello Mai. Do you want save your face for that you have said before?

Hmm not really... I really don't care if he's innocent or not, if he's scary or a nice person. But true, if he IS innocent, then I think most of us will have a little sympathy for him. It's horrible to be accused for something you havn't done, just because someone wants his money. But I don't know much about this trial...

[Roberto]

I just cannot stand this idiot Michael jackson- and you can all know it :)
They can put him into prison or not- who cares??? I don't !
What? Michael Jackson is idiot? Are you sure?

[artsaves1228]

wow who cares :roll:

[Joane]

What? Michael Jackson is idiot? Are you sure?

Don't be angry with me cutie but that's actually what I think- sry I can't stand him, his music may be good but him as person I just don't like...

You may for sure discuss with me at msn ;)

[Luna]

And I'm the queen of China....

Djeez don't have much time to surf forums but really got to reply on this one. what is it with all these 'I love Michael Jackson-I'm absolutely sure he's innocent because he just is-fans' ?

I think you guys need to open your eyes and realize that it still can be true that the guy's guilty! Sure, I have 4 cd's of MJ, sure I love his old music, sure I don't believe everything the tabloids say, but does that mean he's innocent, you don't know the guy in person. There are friends of me who I know better (of course I've never seen MJ, so I know everybody else better then him) who do things I'm surprised of. You never know what's in people's head.

Besides, you hear it all the time, of course in Belgium, our country is infamous in Europe because of the 'Dutroux scandal' I think. the latest times I'm very surprised of what I hear in the news, about priests or even the policeman of our district being a pedofile. About the guy who runs an animal centre (asylum for found dogs or cats and so on) for a couple of years in my city and then the police found 300 pics of him having sex with animals. He got arrested. Nice huh, nice to know my boyfriends Jack Russel has run away several times and got picked up by that centre and then they call: "Is this your dog?" - "Oh thank you, he has run away again, thanks for the good 'care'!" and then you go and pick your dog up again, never assuming he would be raped by this maniac (maybe didn't happen, but you never know huh!)

And I agree with maii when she's saying it's horrible if you're being accused for something that you haven't done.

[Golfiscool]

And I'm the queen of China....

Djeez don't have much time to surf forums but really got to reply on this one. what is it with all these 'I love Michael Jackson-I'm absolutely sure he's innocent because he just is-fans' ?

I think you guys need to open your eyes and realize that it still can be true that the guy's guilty! Sure, I have 4 cd's of MJ, sure I love his old music, sure I don't believe everything the tabloids say, but does that mean he's innocent, you don't know the guy in person. There are friends of me who I know better (of course I've never seen MJ, so I know everybody else better then him) who do things I'm surprised of. You never know what's in people's head.

Besides, you hear it all the time, of course in Belgium, our country is infamous in Europe because of the 'Dutroux scandal' I think. the latest times I'm very surprised of what I hear in the news, about priests or even the policeman of our district being a pedofile. About the guy who runs an animal centre (asylum for found dogs or cats and so on) for a couple of years in my city and then the police found 300 pics of him having sex with animals. He got arrested. Nice huh, nice to know my boyfriends Jack Russel has run away several times and got picked up by that centre and then they call: "Is this your dog?" - "Oh thank you, he has run away again, thanks for the good 'care'!" and then you go and pick your dog up again, never assuming he would be raped by this maniac (maybe didn't happen, but you never know huh!)

And I agree with maii when she's saying it's horrible if you're being accused for something that you haven't done.

Nicely said.

[artsaves1228]

And I'm the queen of China....

Djeez don't have much time to surf forums but really got to reply on this one. what is it with all these 'I love Michael Jackson-I'm absolutely sure he's innocent because he just is-fans' ?

I think you guys need to open your eyes and realize that it still can be true that the guy's guilty! Sure, I have 4 cd's of MJ, sure I love his old music, sure I don't believe everything the tabloids say, but does that mean he's innocent, you don't know the guy in person. There are friends of me who I know better (of course I've never seen MJ, so I know everybody else better then him) who do things I'm surprised of. You never know what's in people's head.

Besides, you hear it all the time, of course in Belgium, our country is infamous in Europe because of the 'Dutroux scandal' I think. the latest times I'm very surprised of what I hear in the news, about priests or even the policeman of our district being a pedofile. About the guy who runs an animal centre (asylum for found dogs or cats and so on) for a couple of years in my city and then the police found 300 pics of him having sex with animals. He got arrested. Nice huh, nice to know my boyfriends Jack Russel has run away several times and got picked up by that centre and then they call: "Is this your dog?" - "Oh thank you, he has run away again, thanks for the good 'care'!" and then you go and pick your dog up again, never assuming he would be raped by this maniac (maybe didn't happen, but you never know huh!)

And I agree with maii when she's saying it's horrible if you're being accused for something that you haven't done.

Nicely said.

i totally agree :roll: even if u were a close friend of michaels u cant be sure he's innocent or not...and i agree the fans of michael that are totally obsessed with this case are very annoying and need to get over it and just leave it alone and not critisize someone who doesnt believe he's innocent :roll: geez

[DeGrawgirl]

ladies and gentleman please welcome Draconian #2 :roll:


ha ha that was funny.

I think that he is guilty. in my oppinion, he has a sick mind, and does, if he has little children in his bed with HIM!
I could give a rat's ass about his childhood... i really dont care. he is sick... and that is it.
and so you know, everybody has their own oppinion, so dont go calling people stupid for them speaking THEIR own truth, or what they believe.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Wave_Glistening]

I'm wondering if It's true that he had naked pictures of children on his computer? That would be pretty convincing for me if he's guilty or not..

[Joane]

And I'm the queen of China....

Djeez don't have much time to surf forums but really got to reply on this one. what is it with all these 'I love Michael Jackson-I'm absolutely sure he's innocent because he just is-fans' ?

I think you guys need to open your eyes and realize that it still can be true that the guy's guilty! Sure, I have 4 cd's of MJ, sure I love his old music, sure I don't believe everything the tabloids say, but does that mean he's innocent, you don't know the guy in person. There are friends of me who I know better (of course I've never seen MJ, so I know everybody else better then him) who do things I'm surprised of. You never know what's in people's head.

Besides, you hear it all the time, of course in Belgium, our country is infamous in Europe because of the 'Dutroux scandal' I think. the latest times I'm very surprised of what I hear in the news, about priests or even the policeman of our district being a pedofile. About the guy who runs an animal centre (asylum for found dogs or cats and so on) for a couple of years in my city and then the police found 300 pics of him having sex with animals. He got arrested. Nice huh, nice to know my boyfriends Jack Russel has run away several times and got picked up by that centre and then they call: "Is this your dog?" - "Oh thank you, he has run away again, thanks for the good 'care'!" and then you go and pick your dog up again, never assuming he would be raped by this maniac (maybe didn't happen, but you never know huh!)

And I agree with maii when she's saying it's horrible if you're being accused for something that you haven't done

... I totally agree with you- nobody here knows Michael and even if you fans want to believe that he's guilty you cannot be angry with us normal joes for not believing that aswell- i never said he's guily because I don't think I'm able to judge him- I don't know him & you don't either- even if your his biggest fan in the world...
think about it

[Roberto]

I'm wondering if It's true that he had naked pictures of children on his computer? That would be pretty convincing for me if he's guilty or not..

This is false! Tabloids are very stupid. They says a lot of liars.
Naked pictures on his computer? This is a joke, it isn't a new.

[Luna]

I'm wondering if It's true that he had naked pictures of children on his computer? That would be pretty convincing for me if he's guilty or not..

This is false! Tabloids are very stupid. They says a lot of liars.
Naked pictures on his computer? This is a joke, it isn't a new.

Sure Roberto. Keep on believing all the good things. I don't know how old you are but ever thought of expressing your thoughts like: "I don't believe that because...." instead of "It's false, it's a lie, it's a joke." Believe me, you'll get nicer discussions with that :wink:

[Roberto]

I'm wondering if It's true that he had naked pictures of children on his computer? That would be pretty convincing for me if he's guilty or not..

This is false! Tabloids are very stupid. They says a lot of liars.
Naked pictures on his computer? This is a joke, it isn't a new.

Sure Roberto. Keep on believing all the good things. I don't know how old you are but ever thought of expressing your thoughts like: "I don't believe that because...." instead of "It's false, it's a lie, it's a joke." Believe me, you'll get nicer discussions with that :wink:

I speak english not so good for that I cannot write too long. I write more short possible. Your news are very superficials. You cannot judge a person for a sentence written or said by mass media. They want draw many people with absurd and non-existent news. I'll post many liars of mass media. You must listen news by reliable sources and not anywhere!
Naked pictures? Yes, is false. The new have been distort.... how all other news.

[drawingyourattention]

Don't be angry with me cutie but that's actually what I think- sry I can't stand him, his music may be good but him as person I just don't like...

okay you cant stand him, thats just a personal thing then.. I personally dont have anyone I cant stand.. im just not that kind of person. I guess these days its normal to 'just dislike' someone you dont know..weird..

and there are more people who just dislike or... hate him... because... the answers though always come out easily 'hes a wacko, hes guilty! hes an idiot' . oww yeahh, of course.. not at all shortsighted!! I stand for non-prejudice, I just dont think that way

Hmm not really... I really don't care if he's innocent or not, if he's scary or a nice person. But true, if he IS innocent, then I think most of us will have a little sympathy for him. It's horrible to be accused for something you havn't done, just because someone wants his money. But I don't know much about this trial...

thank you Maii, someone here thinking quite reasonable.. this is a very fair way.. cause you dont follow it everyday...

what is it with all these 'I love Michael Jackson-I'm absolutely sure he's innocent because he just is-fans' ?

fair to say, but thats actually not what im saying.. I know i wasnt there so i can never be 100% sure. But you know what? so many people are just calling him a freak, guilty etc. I need to defend him cause im a fan. When im talking with fans we talk more realistic (maybe the wrong word), we dont think 'he just is innocent' we do know we can never be THAT sure.

think you guys need to open your eyes and realize that it still can be true that the guy's guilty! Sure, I have 4 cd's of MJ, sure I love his old music, sure I don't believe everything the tabloids say, but does that mean he's innocent, you don't know the guy in person.

fair to say too.. but just like youre saying that, I can say: he may be weird or in your perspective 'wacko', it doesnt mean he did it... and you know what.. I know about those priests and other people, and it is crazy.. Those people are seen as 'normal people'.. .. think about that.

totally agree even if u were a close friend of michaels u cant be sure he's innocent or not...and i agree the fans of michael that are totally obsessed with this case are very annoying and need to get over it and just leave it alone and not critisize someone who doesnt believe he's innocent geez

can you imagen being a fan... going somewhere to a forum, putting the radio on, tv, reading the newspaper.. facts totally ignored, twisted... people saying he's guilty.. can you imagen that, that is annoying too? Besides that theyre calling him wacko etc..
can you understand that as a fan and you follow the case very close.. that you find it real ignorant when someone says hes guilty.. and doesnt know anything about it...

do ya all... just when you see someone who comes across as different, weird, odd looking... do you all just find him/ her sick? Is that the way you look at other people? Cultures? Because they dont fit into your idea of life/living. Because they have not lived life like you have?

I'm wondering if It's true that he had naked pictures of children on his computer?

that would be childporn.. is that what you mean? I he would have, he would have been sitting for months in jail, cause thats illegal.

the word 'caring' is this something we are afraid of these days? Or is it just hot to say 'I just dont bloody care'... Everyone is saying it, why dont you to ah?!
I sure dont, never have, I dont like following the big mass...

[Golfiscool]

do ya all... just when you see someone who comes across as different, weird, odd looking... do you all just find him/ her sick? Is that the way you look at other people? Cultures? Because they dont fit into your idea of life/living. Because they have not lived life like you have?


Unfortunately, this is the society we live in and everyone is guilty of it, even you.

I'm wondering if It's true that he had naked pictures of children on his computer?

that would be childporn.. is that what you mean? I he would have, he would have been sitting for months in jail, cause thats illegal.


Murder is also illegal and OJ Simpson got away with it. It's all politics in the courtroom. Michael will be found not guilty just because he's a celebrity.


the word 'caring' is this something we are afraid of these days? Or is it just hot to say 'I just dont bloody care'... Everyone is saying it, why dont you to ah?!
I sure dont, never have, I dont like following the big mass...

I think everyone is just sick of hearing about the trial. I personally really don't care what happens to him. Even if he does go to prison (highly unlikely) he will still live like a celebrity.

[Luna]

Quote:
think you guys need to open your eyes and realize that it still can be true that the guy's guilty! Sure, I have 4 cd's of MJ, sure I love his old music, sure I don't believe everything the tabloids say, but does that mean he's innocent, you don't know the guy in person.


fair to say too.. but just like youre saying that, I can say: he may be weird or in your perspective 'wacko', it doesnt mean he did it... and you know what.. I know about those priests and other people, and it is crazy.. Those people are seen as 'normal people'.. .. think about that.


I never called him a freak, did I?
I know those priests and policemen are seen as normal people and still they did those things, my point was: MJ is a singer and famous person, that doesnt' mean he can't be a pedofile, just like 'normal' people can be pedofiles. I agree with you that you don't have to accuse a person to be a pedofile just because he's weird.
I'm just pointing out that no one will know what he did, untill they can proof it and that defending him because you're a fan is a good point but people don't need to persuade me that the rumours are false just because THEY're the fan and THEY think they know everything and THEY believe it's false. that's just plain stupid

[Luna]

I'm wondering if It's true that he had naked pictures of children on his computer? That would be pretty convincing for me if he's guilty or not..

This is false! Tabloids are very stupid. They says a lot of liars.
Naked pictures on his computer? This is a joke, it isn't a new.

Sure Roberto. Keep on believing all the good things. I don't know how old you are but ever thought of expressing your thoughts like: "I don't believe that because...." instead of "It's false, it's a lie, it's a joke." Believe me, you'll get nicer discussions with that :wink:

I speak english not so good for that I cannot write too long. I write more short possible. Your news are very superficials. You cannot judge a person for a sentence written or said by mass media. They want draw many people with absurd and non-existent news. I'll post many liars of mass media. You must listen news by reliable sources and not anywhere!
Naked pictures? Yes, is false. The new have been distort.... how all other news.

That's a lame excuse I think. So I'll listen to you then, saying it's all lies, because you're a reliable source right? You know the truth then I guess? :roll: :?

Like Duey said, everybody's getting tired of the trial. And I don't care at all what happens to MJ. I just hope that if he goes to jail, he won't get a celebrity treatment.

[Roberto]

I speak english not so good for that I cannot write too long. I write more short possible. Your news are very superficials. You cannot judge a person for a sentence written or said by mass media. They want draw many people with absurd and non-existent news. I'll post many liars of mass media. You must listen news by reliable sources and not anywhere!
Naked pictures? Yes, is false. The new have been distort.... how all other news.


That's a lame excuse I think. So I'll listen to you then, saying it's all lies, because you're a reliable source right? You know the truth then I guess? :roll: :?

Like Duey said, everybody's getting tired of the trial. And I don't care at all what happens to MJ. I just hope that if he goes to jail, he won't get a celebrity treatment.

But I have said I am reliable source? Before of all I'm a Michael Jackson's fan and therefore I am more informed of you. I read many news about MJJ and only some sources are reliable. I have said too: "I'll post many liars of mass media". You wait and you'll see.

[Luna]

That was sarcasm, I'm not going to believe ANYONE because WHO is a reliable source?

I agree when you say you're more informed about MJ than I am, but that doesn't mean you know the truth.

[drawingyourattention]

Unfortunately, this is the society we live in and everyone is guilty of it, even you.

I know that.. but I try my best not to be. Nobodys perfect and we give unfair opinions sometimes about others, I know that.

Murder is also illegal and OJ Simpson got away with it. It's all politics in the courtroom. Michael will be found not guilty just because he's a celebrity.

that is a thing that would come to your mind.. it seems like not really possible, a celebrity like him in jail????? but this is a real trial, and no Neverland party.

this is not politics.. its not for lawyers to decide about MJ

this is a jury and not one lawyer who will decide; 12 people from around there.. they have been choosen especially on, not having any ideas about MJ negative or positive, not knowing much about him (you know the living with MJ special... it was seen by most people, but I believe only 3 of the jury members have seen it) having a completely open mind to both sides. etc. etc. Theyve been choosen from a huge list of people.

and dont let me get started about the judge... he doesnt like mjs excentricity's thats clear... hes very very strict. If you're ill he doesnt want to know or believe it, til you come walking in like an old man and you're doctor comes up with a statement...
but of course the judge can only rule things in there, say who can testify or not.. He will not decide.

I dont know much about the Simpson trial. I heard/read stuff about race things.. the jury was black or most of them..cause it was in LA etc. but i cant say much about it, because i dont know... i was too young.

No the jury might have been choosen on having an open mind. I do believe that but ... its more likely that the jury are like 'the public'..because they just are the public. In America they think worse of MJ than anywhere else. We've all know about 'wacko jacko' for years.. its always negative about him, the media... everyone knows that... the public...: the jury
now O.J. didnt have this image in 1994. He was a talented football player, thats all the world knew. Look at Jackson at how hes been known for years... since the 90s the real negativity started about him. Makes an enormous difference.

Even if he does go to prison (highly unlikely) he will still live like a celebrity.

euhm.. hahaha.. is there a prison, that is like a house, with one person imprisoned with security around it? He will have his recording studio there? And his themepark?
Prison is prison mate. He might get some extra's, or more separated from others.
Anyway, lol, is not going to happen.

[drawingyourattention]

I'm just pointing out that no one will know what he did, untill they can proof it and that defending him because you're a fan is a good point but people don't need to persuade me that the rumours are false just because THEY're the fan and THEY think they know everything and THEY believe it's false. that's just plain stupid

i dont know, I wasnt there
I do read the transcripts.. i watch the re-enactments.. those are the testimony's happening right there in court. These people saying this, other people saying that... how can it be a lie when you read what the people said in the court? yes the 'actual' words themselves can be lies... but thats what its all about... but i dont really understand when you say: fans think they know because theyre fans... its not 'just' that.. we're not just stupid. Some are, I have to admit, they see him like some sort of god.. what happens with the media is that they take the words, ignore some others which are important, and they dont report any background information which can at a lot of times be even more important.

I mean what seems more credible to you: a family that never did anything in court before, never had problems with anyone OR a family who have been in court before (and not just once!) and have accused someone falsely to get money (if you want prove of this cause you dont believe it, ill be more than happy to tell ya) ?

now the media does report this, but it really happens with the 'smaller' things, they can do it sneaky, so they will. But not all the media! I have to say!

now we do know, that the family said they were held captive at neverland, and that they were during this period, at the dentist, at a spa (the mother) for a body wax, at a shop, they could call, because they did call someone.. but authorities, ask for help?? no they did not call anyone for help... anyway, when you're held capture, you're held capture.. and you're not outside of the place where you are held capture.. and they were. This is some of the proof we have, on this conspiracy/ inprisonment charge... and this says a whole lot about the molestation case.

[drawingyourattention]

i can also give an example.. it would make you more believe that we really have our opinions based on the what is said in the courtroom by thr people on the stand.. and not just: Im a fan! i know he is innocent. If I would be like that, i wouldnt follow it... I am following it cause I want to know, and want to give my opinion. I want to know if my fave artist is guilty or not... it want to give a reasonable opinion. I am not saying this man is perfect, there are many many, stupid fans.. i know mj has made real stupid mistakes... someone should wake him up!

[drawingyourattention]

ladies and gentleman please welcome Draconian #2

:lol: :lol: :lol:

who is this???

:lol: :lol:

[drawingyourattention]

I think that he is guilty. in my oppinion, he has a sick mind, and does, if he has little children in his bed with HIM!

this is society yes, grown man/person with child in bed: AH!! its sexual! inappropriate! Is everything about sex these days..

just explain to me exactly why you think that hes guilty...

im listening..

and dont give me, because of the way he looks stuff, or hes weird stuff..

[artsaves1228]

ladies and gentleman please welcome Draconian #2

:lol: :lol: :lol:

who is this???

:lol: :lol:
my guess would be you??! :lol:

[drawingyourattention]

yes i can figure out that its a name for me... but it's: Draconian #2
so there must be a nr 1 too...

[artsaves1228]

yes i can figure out that its a name for me... but it's: Draconian #2
so there must be a nr 1 too...
um i think Draconian would be number 1???? :? :lol:

[Luna]

yes i can figure out that its a name for me... but it's: Draconian #2
so there must be a nr 1 too...

If you would be more on this forum to post your drawings, instead of only posting in the michael jackson threads and one drawing, you would know

[drawingyourattention]

If you would be more on this forum to post your drawings, instead of only posting in the michael jackson threads and one drawing, you would know

oki :D sorry... im just want to defend him

how do you know i can draw? I post one time a drawing quite a long time ago

[drawingyourattention]

oops I read that too fast :lol:

[Joane]

Sure Roberto. Keep on believing all the good things. I don't know how old you are but ever thought of expressing your thoughts like: "I don't believe that because...." instead of "It's false, it's a lie, it's a joke." Believe me, you'll get nicer discussions with that



... wasn't I the one who opened a " put the ages of the users behind their names" thread??? It' s just so annoying to never really know whom you're talking with...




Quote:
Don't be angry with me cutie but that's actually what I think- sry I can't stand him, his music may be good but him as person I just don't like...


okay you cant stand him, thats just a personal thing then.. I personally dont have anyone I cant stand.. im just not that kind of person. I guess these days its normal to 'just dislike' someone you dont know..weird..

but how can you say that you absolutely love s.o. you don't know eitehr????

but thanks for being fair and respecting our opinions


this is all getting a bit weird that we are discussing about s.o. we do ALL not know & I did even have an argument with Roberto about him is it really worth it ??? :roll: ....

Although now I'm very interested in the result of his trial ^^

[drawingyourattention]

absolutely love? nahh, Im not a fan that would stand with a banner with: I love you mj.. , I prefer: I support you/ we support you.. etc.
Love... That goes a little too far for me.

but yeah, I think we should just leave it..

the subject MJ is a hard thing.. I easily get kinda erm kinda annoying... I keep on typing and typing when I feel something is being said so unfairly (is that English, lol)

ages behind their name? good idea!


so em.. y'all just wait and see, I heard it will be over in about 5 or 6 weeks..

[Joane]

okay you're right-let s just leave it like this :D

If you want ages behind the user names please post into the thread I opened in "everything else" about that or s.o.please tell zindy or brian- I've no idea how to...

[drawingyourattention]

oki, but where's the thread.. i cant find it

[drawingyourattention]

I just wanna say one little last thing on the case

cause people are going on and on.. yeah youre a fan, you think you know the truth, because you think you Michael Jackson.
And I just wanna say; that you dont have to know anything about Michael just to see that he didnt do it...
for me.. its all about this family.. their stories.. things that couldve possibly happened like the imprisonment while they were outside neverland..

but ok... I will stop now :roll: :P

[Joane]

oohh :oops:
sorry- the thread is in Zindy's forum and not in everything else *lol*

[drawingyourattention]

oohh :oops:
sorry- the thread is in Zindy's forum and not in everything else *lol*

thnx :D :D

[Joane]

;)